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  • Valerie Stimac 20:32:47 on 2016-03-12 Permalink  

    LAUNCH Festival 2016: Hyperloop Tech co-founders Shervin Pishevar & Brogan BamBrogan are making the dream of high-speed travel a reality 

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    In episode 629 of This Week in Startups, Jason is joined on the LAUNCH Festival stage by Hyperloop Technologies co-founders Shervin Pishevar and Brogan BamBrogan. They talk about the basics of Hyperloop – how it works, how much it will cost, where it will be – as well as several higher level issues affecting the development of the Hyperloop: government support, infrastructure and ‘new cities,’ and the real innovation taking place. Shervin even gives his expert opinion on how the presidential race could impact Hyperloop in the U.S. Here are a handful of the insights Shervin and Brogan give on how Hyperloop is a ‘moon shot’ opportunity.

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    Hyperloop Will Levitate

    Brogan gives a great explanation of the technology behind Hyperloop; if you’re not familiar with it, it will in fact be a levitating pod inside a tube, powered by electromagnets and taking advantage of reduced air resistance to travel at extremely fast speeds. It’s not magic, but it’s probably going to look like it.

    Hyperloop Aims to be Cost Effective

    Several times, both Brogan and Shervin underscore the fact that the technology to build Hyperloop currently exists – the goal at Hyperloop Technologies as a company is to make the Hyperloop cost effective. They assert that if the Hyperloop isn’t cost effective, it won’t be as revolutionary as they know it can be.

    The First Hyperloop Test is Happening This Year

    You might be surprised to learn that Hyperloop Technologies will run their first tests by the end of 2016. The team has been hard at work since signing a lease for their Nevada test site in December, and will have over three miles of tube and rails on which to run Hyperloop pods.

    Hyperloop is a Capital Intensive Project

    Jason asks Shervin about the cost of bring Hyperloop from idea to reality, and he gives some insight: their first round of funding was for $11 million, and their next round target is $70 million to fund the test runs in Nevada. Brogan also estimates that a San Francisco to Los Angeles rout will cost between $15 and $20 billion. At the same time, these estimates are taking advantage of cost effective innovations.

    Hyperloop May Be Abroad Before it is in the U.S.

    Shervin and Brogan give insights into how there are countries all over the world are interested in adding Hyperloop technology, and many of them will create regulatory opportunities faster than the U.S. Shervin also ends the conversation discussing how the winner of this presidential race will affect how quickly the U.S. will adopt Hyperloop transport.

    Hyperloop Will Disrupt the Aviation Industry in Specific Ways

    Jason asks Shervin about how Hyperloop will disrupt the aviation industry, and he gives a measured answer: short-term transport will definitely be affected, but initially long-term air travel will not be impacted. You’ll still be able to fly cross-country, if you love those tiny airplane seats.

    Someday, You Will Take the Hyperloop Beneath the Oceans

    While Brogan points out that the technology currently exists to build a Hyperloop route from Long Beach to Shenzhen or Shanghai. The big hurdle that Hyperloop Technologies is trying to overcome is in creating the most cost effective way to create that route. By the end of our lifetimes though, it will be a real possibility.

    Elon Musk Came Up with the Idea, But Isn’t Affiliated with Hyperloop Technologies

    While SpaceX hosed the Pod design and build competition in 2015, this was just one part of what Shervin calls the Hyperloop “movement.” He talk about how much the support the idea has, and how Hyperloop Technologies is just one company helping support and make the technology a reality.

    Want to hear the whole conversation? The full episode with Shervin Pishevar and Brogan BamBrogan, as well as past episodes are all available on This Week in Startups.


    0:54 – 4:31: Jason introduces Shervin & Brogan from Hyperloop, and asks Brogan about the origins of Elon and his Hyperloop idea. Shervin gives additional insights.

    4:31 – 7:03: Jason asks Brogan about the technology of how Hyperloop works.

    9:30 – 11:24: Brogan continues to explain about the technology of how Hyperloop works.

    11:24 – 13:11:  Shervin and Brogan talk about the level of innovation at Hyperloop, and the costs of production and use.

    13:11 – 15:05: Jason, Shervin, and Brogan discuss the test track set to go into operations later in 2016, and the Pod Competition in 2015.

    15:05 – 16:18: Jason asks Shervin about the first estimated dates for cargo and passengers transit.

    16:18 – 19:33: Shervin gives insight into the capital intensiveness of the Hyperloop project.

    21:15 – 23:58: Jason inquires about the government response to Hyperloop – both domestically, and internationally.

    23:58 – 25:51: Brogan and Shervin talk about the technology of putting the Hyperloop through mountains and underwater.

    25:51 – 27:10: Jason follows up asking about long-distance underwater Hyperloop capabilities.

    27:10 – 30:07: Brogan and Shervin discuss the cost, time, and feasibility of the SF/LA Hyperloop idea. They also talk with Jason about building Hyperloop to ‘new cities.’

    30:11 – 31:34: Jason asks about what impact Hyperloop will have on the aviation industry

    31:24 – 32:34: Brogan gives insights into where Hyperloop will be in terms of ‘right of ways’.

    32:34 – 34:13: Shervin talks about the hurdles to getting Hyperloop established in the U.S. first.

    34:13 – 36:25: Jason asks about the likely first routes for passenger and cargo Hyperloop transport in the U.S.

    36:36 – 37:34: Jason asks Shervin about what he predicts Obama will do after ending his presidency.

    37:34 – 40:27: Shervin gives his insight and expert opinion on the presidential race, why he’s supporting Hillary Clinton, and why we should fear Donald Trump becoming president.

    — Valerie Stimac, TWiST archivist
    Valerie Stimac is a Seattle-based marketer and writer with a background in the tech startup scene.

  • Valerie Stimac 01:38:02 on 2016-03-09 Permalink  

    LAUNCH Festival 2016: Chamath Palihapitiya on the state of tech, politics, diversity, choosing investors, & our changing morality 

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    In episode 628 of This Week in Startups, Jason sits down with Chamath Palihapitiya for a fireside chat at the 2016 LAUNCH Festival. Chamath is a venture capitalist and CEO of Social Capital. In their candid conversation, they cover a range of conversations including the insanity of Donald Trump, the changing morality in America, diversity in technology, why we should hope that Theranos’ Elizabeth Holmes will still be a success, and the four things you should look for when choosing your investors. Plus numerous other topics too — this is a meaty conversation that gives you a look inside the mind of one of the Valley’s most successful VCs. Check out some more about the topics covered below.

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    The Morality of America has Changed

    At several points in their conversation about the American political system, Chamath notes how morality has shifted in many significant ways in the past few years — we now value aspects like non-traditional education and racial and gender equality — which has produced opportunities for people like Donald Trump to take the main stage in our two-party system. Chamath goes on to point out that these changes in morality have implications for founders: there are new business opportunities now that wouldn’t have existed even five years ago.

    Four Things Founders Should Look For In Investors

    In the course of discussing the state of the venture capital industry, Chamath lays down four simple guidelines for picking investors. These are:

    1. Investors who are good “pickers” — people who are good at choosing successful portfolio so that you can be among other high quality founders and companies.
    2. The percentage of the VC’s portfolio that gets follow-on financing — if you want to make it from round A to B and then on to C, looking at the past performance of a VC’s portfolio can give you insight into how long you will likely to be able to receive investing.
    3. Investors who “map to what you are as a person” — sharing the same values and goals makes the investment relationship more enjoyable, and it means you are helping someone succeed whom you want to see be successful.
    4. Investors whom you morally disagree with — if you don’t agree with what your investor stands for, yet your company helps them succeed, you continue to perpetuate that moral.

    Chamath recommends building your ranked list of investors based on these criteria, and he also gives a fair assessment of Social Capital on these criteria.

    There’s a Long Way to Go to Improve Diversity in Venture Capital

    Toward the end of their conversation, Jason and Chamath discuss the ‘report card’ Social Capital produced last year which laid bare the reality of non-diversity in the venture capital industry. Chamath spoke passionately about diversity in the industry, the chasm between the investor and entrepreneur class (which displays far better diversity), and how he’s helping steer Social Capital to ensure the distance between “us” and “them” closes.

    Want to hear the whole conversation? The full episode with Chamath Palihapitiya, as well as past episodes are all available on This Week in Startups.


    2:16–6:33: Jason asks Chamath about how Donald Trump has seen such success in this presidential campaign, the changing morality of Americans, and how entrepreneurs should try to take advantage of this.

    6:33–8:32: Chamath gives his opinions on the two-party system in the US and why he would devote the entire team at Social Capital to Mike Bloomberg’s campaign if he ran for president.

    11:49–14:44: Jason asks Chamath about the state of the technology and investment industry, the historical run up of unicorns, massive valuations and massive fundings, and what’s happening now. They also discuss Slack as a good example of a company that controls its own destiny.

    14:44–19:02: Chamanth talks about how the best founders emerge in times like this, where investment is harder to come by. He also shows how 2016 fits a pattern for the founding a massive company.

    20:55–24:29: Chamath and Jason talk about Zenefits, how the company was morally broken, and how David Sacks will fix it. They discuss Facebook, and how companies can test the boundaries without breaking the rules.

    24:29–28:29: Chatham talks about the difficult task Theranos is trying to do, how he hopes that the company is legitimate, and how transparency is crucial to success.

    28:29–35:00: In discussing the state of Social Captial, Chamath lays out four things he believes founders should look for in their investors. He also discusses how he is trying to ensure Social Capital is more than just an investment firm.

    35:00–39:38: Chamath takes a passionate stand about diversity in the industry, the chasm between the investor and entrepreneur class, and how he’s constructing his business/investments to ensure the distance between “us” and “them” closes.

    39:47–45:30: Jason asks Chamath about the diversity report card Social Capital made about the venture industry, and how he’s come to realize how crucial diversity is for making successful venture decisions across all stages of a company.

    45:30–48:14: Chamath talks about the Eight Ball they built at Social Capital to shine light on the analytics they use in-house to make better business decisions.

    48:14–53:40: Lightning Round: Chamath quickly gives his thoughts on several topics, including Apple vs the FBI; self-driving cars; virtual reality; Uber; and Y Combinator.

    — Valerie Stimac, TWiST archivist
    Valerie Stimac is a Seattle-based marketer and writer with a background in the tech startup scene.

  • Valerie Stimac 02:03:02 on 2016-02-24 Permalink  

    This Week in Startups: Thinking Through the Funnel with Des Traynor, co-founder of Intercom 

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    In episode 624 of This Week in Startups, Intercom cofounder Des Traynor speaks to the LAUNCH Incubator. His talk, titled “Thinking Through the Funnel,” leads founders through different issues they should consider when trying to acquire users. Des lays a foundation by saying that most companies have no difficulty getting their first hundred, thousand, or sometimes even million users; it’s keeping those users that is the truly challenging task for companies. Read on for a quick walkthrough of the four main steps of getting — and keeping — users.

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    Market the Job the Customer Does to Get the Signup

    Des says that in order to successfully keep users, you need to do more than just convince them to try your new technology or beautifully designed product: you need to communicate that you’ll help them “get the job done,” whatever job that may be. In order to successfully do this, you have to talk to the customer — yes, even the founder should have experience talking directly with your target users. When you hear their needs, wants, and desires directly, you’ll be able to figure out how to create and position your product to help them with whatever job they need to do.

    Onboarding Users

    Des defines onboarding as anything that occurs from between expressing an intent to use the product, and when they are actually fully able to use it. He says most founders and companies design an onboarding program, then forget about it. Within reason, each time there is a major change in your product, you should go back to your onboarding process and ensure it still adequately helps get the customer to being able to successfully use the product. Sometimes, this can be done through optimizing the page (making small adjustments), but often, it requires a redesign of at least some components.

    Get the Customer through the Trial Period

    If you think your product doesn’t have a trial period, Des says you’re wrong. Every product has a trial: every user has their own trial period to determine if the product or service provides them value. This is an important time to communicate with and support your users (and it’s why drip email campaigns have become an integral part of early communications strategies). This is also an important time to be soliciting feedback from your new customers: whether or not they are finding value, you need to understand why, and improve what you can.

    Watch What Happens Next

    After a user successfully moves out of a trial phase, your work is not done. It’s still important to watch what users do next: Do they churn? Do they stop using after a few weeks and go try a competitor instead? Do they stop using but continue paying you? Des says that you can’t stop talking to the customer just because they have become a full-fledged user: you need to observe and communicate with them in an ongoing way, to ensure you understand how to continue providing them the value they found when they first started using your product.

    Want to hear the whole presentation? The full episode with Des Traynor, as well as past episodes are all available on This Week in Startups.


    0:56 – 4:40: Jason introduces Des and Des gives an introduction to the focus of his talk: “Thinking Through the Funnel”

    4:40 – 7:02: How to get people to signups – marketing “the job the customer needs to get done”

    9:30 – 12:40: Des discusses what you should focus on as an entrepreneur, and the fact that you have to talk to customers. He also provides insight from Intercom as an example.

    12:40 – 15:18: Des discusses the definition and process of onboarding, and why onboarding should be a constantly evolving experience.

    15:18 – 22:16: Des lays out the differences between optimizing and redesigning, and where your focus should be depending on how your product is performing.

    22:16 – 28:05: Des explores the ideal of a product trial and how it all comes back to how much value customers see in your product and how you can segment users to enhance this perceived value.

    28:05 – 32:33: Des explores how to think about keeping your product valuable and learning from customers about customer retention.

    32:48 – 37:31: Jason asks Des about the art of knowing when to listen and when to ignore the information your customers give you about your product.

    31:33 – 41:14: Des answers Jason’s questions about about how to prioritize feature development, measuring and predicting the impact of those developments, and how the founder balances these dynamics.

    41:14 – 44:25: Jason asks Des about how to balance “data-driven” versus “gut-driven” decision making as a founder. Des also lays out the 5 inputs he balances in product development at Intercom: what they want to build, what can be scaled, product quality, bug bashing, and product iteration.

    44:34 – 47:44: Des answers Jason’s question about what one thing he would have changed earlier as a founder, as well as how long Des thinks it takes a startup to know it’s time to prioritize a growth team.

    48:43 – 49:50: An audience member asks Des about “signing up for your own product” and Des gives insight into the rational behind that advice.

    49:52 – 51:39: An audience member asks Des about building a growth team from “zero to one,” and Des discusses how Intercom actually went from “zero to two.”

    51:47 – 55:40: An audience member asks about the different kinds of investments to make in growth, and Des talks about “growth hacking” and his growth priorities as a founder. Des and Jason discuss Peach and Secret as an example.

    55:40 – 59:10 : Jason and Des talk about how investor perceptions of growth have changed in the past few years.

    — Valerie Stimac, TWiST archivist
    Valerie Stimac is a Seattle-based marketer and writer with a background in the tech startup scene.

  • Valerie Stimac 20:29:31 on 2016-02-17 Permalink  

    This Week in Startups: Alec Ross, Senior Advisor for Innovation for SecState Hillary Clinton & author of “Industries of the Future” 

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    In episode 622 of This Week in Startups, Jason sits down with Alec Ross, author of The Industries of the Future to discuss technology, employment, and the future of the United States economy (as well as the world). Their conversation ranges from Alec’s experiences working as Senior Advisor for Innovation for Hillary Clinton during her tenure as Secretary of State to how unemployment rates in the U.S. differ from elsewhere, from robots and technology replacing (some) jobs in the future to Alec’s three greatest global fears — and much more. Check out some of the main talking points below to spark your curiosity for the full episode.

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    Working with the Secretary of State

    Jason and Alec spend the first part of their conversation discussing Alec’s tenure working with Hillary Clinton. They both share personal insights into Clinton’s character and her desire to understand and empower innovation in the future of the U.S. Despite her commitment to knowledge and technology, one of the most salient stories told was about her understanding the importance of family and life outside work. Alec tells how she would often leave the office to work from home, so that her team could go home to spend time with their families.

    Robots Will Replace (Some Of) Us

    But probably not for the jobs you think. While robots and automation have consistently moved in to replace manual, repetitive tasks, Alec spends time exploring how the rise of AI and cognitive machines means that robots will also be able to do semi-cognitive, semi-routine tasks that have previously been done by humans. This isn’t for the worst: historically, he says, being replaced by a machine has almost always resulted in a shift in the working force toward more efficient uses for human time.

    The Polarization of Wealth is a Problem

    Alec spends some time discussing how massive wealth inequality is a problem, but it has also resulted in the quality of life improving for almost everyone over time. While massive wealth has been accumulated by some, many of these people have turned around and given back — either through private philanthropy, research, or by affecting policy change on a global scale, such as the fight against AIDS in Africa.

    Immigration is One of the Biggest Problems in the U.S.

    Immigration is a problem, but not only for the reason you’d imagine. Unfortunately, the “xenophobic” attitude in the U.S. is not only preventing illegal immigrants from coming to the United States — it’s also preventing talented entrepreneurs from doing business and increasing the power and wealth of the country. Jason and Alec discuss policy changes necessary to change this, and why it’s vital that the U.S. change its approach to immigrants from the past few decades, or risk losing a seat among the most powerful, innovative countries in the world.

    The Future is Bright, But Also Scary

    Alec has his reasons for saying so right at the front of mind. There are real threats to the United States and our way of life (as well as the safety of the globe and global economy): Vladimir Putin with access to nuclear weapons, the hatred that Pakistan has toward the U.S., and the ability for ISIS to orchestrate an(other) event that results in a high body count in a Western capital. At the same time, there are also exciting opportunities on the horizon. The Industries of the Future that Alec explores in his book will change our world dramatically in the next century; as long as we’re savvy enough to deal with the threats and encourage innovation along the way.

    Want to hear the whole conversation? The full episode with Alec Ross, as well as past episodes are all available on This Week in Startups.


    0:45 – 7:04: Jason introduces Alec, and they discuss his time working for Hillary Clinton during her tenure as Secretary of State, and why you shouldn’t go home before your boss.

    7:05 – 9:03: Alec and Jason discuss the email scandal around Hillary Clinton, and their thoughts on the issue, as well as Alec’s work during the Benghazi attack.

    9:09 – 11:14: Jason and Alec discuss the future of the publishing industry and the power of Audible.

    16:35 – 17:48: Alec gives opinions on the current state of the election campaigns, and which parties are at play.

    17:49 – 19:51: Jason prompts Alec to discuss the economy, unemployment, and how those relate to tech development and jobs

    19:51 – 22:43: Alec explores the future of robotics in replacing jobs, and what areas we can expect to see this happen in.

    22:43 – 27:45: Jason asks Alec about the polarization of wealth, and whether he thinks it is a problem.

    27:45 – 29:27: Alec expands upon the way that the polarization of wealth is solving global problems such as the AIDS epidemic.

    29:28 – 32:30: Jason and Alec discuss how extremely wealthy individuals and philanthropy affect public policy, using Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama as examples.

    32:30 – 35:50: Alec and Jason turn the conversation toward immigration, innovation, and how the US needs the former to stay on top of the latter. They also discuss how most of the issues we face related to these issues boil down to racism.

    35:51 – 38:55: Jason and Alec discuss Donald Trump, his narcissistic tendencies, and his election chances.

    38:55 – 44:23: Alec shares his fears about the economy and industries of the future and how some technologies are enabling these.

    44:23 – 48:34: Jason and Alec discuss how ISIS uses social media and psychology to recruit and empower their movement, and what the U.S. can do in response.

    48:34 – 51:33: The conversation turns to oil and energy; Alec and Jason discuss how prices have gotten so low, and the impact on the global/U.S. economy.

    51:33 – 53:14: Jason asks Alec about Vladimir Putin and his role in oil/resource management in Russia.

    53:15 – 55:29: Jason asks Alec what he thinks will be the biggest industry to change the future. His answer? The commercialization of genomics.

    — Valerie Stimac, TWiST archivist
    Valerie Stimac is a Seattle-based marketer and writer with a background in the tech startup scene.

  • Valerie Stimac 23:37:12 on 2016-02-10 Permalink  

    This Week in Startups: Gagan Biyani, CEO & Co-Founder of Sprig 

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    In episode 620 of This Week in Startups, Jason sits down with Gagan Biyani, CEO and cofounder of Sprig, formerly of Udemy and — Jason learns through the course of the conversation — Lyft. They discuss Gagan’s background in entrepreneurship and peer-to-peer services as a foundation for the work he’s doing with Sprig, a brand-new Sprig feature, and the tremendous future he predicts for the company. Here are a few other highlights from this episode.

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    Technology Enables Innovation Upon Innovation

    Jason and Gagan spend the first part of the episode discussing Gagan’s professional background and the elements that came together to lead him to co-found Sprig. In the course of this conversation, they mention how technology didn’t even present the opportunity for fresh, ready meal delivery a few years ago: without GPS, Uber and Lyft wouldn’t exist. Without driver-on-demand services, the idea for home delivery of meal delivery didn’t have a space to exist. They comment how this is often the case with major innovations: you don’t know what’s going to happen until the foundation is laid for an entrepreneur to take advantage of that opportunity.

    Entrepreneurship Can Be About More than Just Making Money

    At one point, Gagan makes a statement that may sound crazy to most entrepreneurs: he considers it his goal to be an activist, not just to make money. In that way, he says his personal mission as an entrepreneur overlaps with projects that help others: Udemy provided a new model of education, and Sprig improving the health quality of the food we eat. Especially for an entrepreneur with such an impressive track record (he also had a stints at TechCrunch and the aforementioned Lyft, as well as co-founding Growth Hackers Conference), it’s refreshing to hear that his ambition comes from a personal place.

    Let Your Mission Drive Product Developments

    During the episode, Gagan gives Jason a demo of a new feature in Sprig: labels on each meal that give deeper insight into the nutritional breakdown of that meal. The three labels “clean,” “balance,” and “fuel” help consumers gain information about the meal (calorie count, protein/carb/veggie breakdown) at a glance, and help distinguish Sprig on their mission and value proposition of providing healthier options to their users. Jason and Gagan discuss how this helps make a company stand out in a sea of competitors, too.

    You Must Know Your Unit Economics

    Gagan and Jason touch on the concept of unit economics several times in their conversation — both relating to Sprig, and other companies too. The conversation underscores an important fact that bears repeating: VCs and investors care about unit economics, and if you want investment in an increasingly tough market, you have to understand how your company gains revenue for each unit sold, and hopefully when you’ll break even.

    People Bemoan Tech Companies, But They Bring Jobs

    Toward the end of the conversation, Jason and Gagan chat about how companies like Uber and Sprig not only bring tech jobs, but they’re helping employ people with many other kinds of skill sets: drivers, cooks, delivery people, and more. In addition to receiving the benefits of services like Uber and Sprig, cities can also receive economic benefits. Businesses can give back in lots of ways, and the good companies of the future will survive because they do so.

    Want to hear the whole conversation? The full episode with Gagan Biyani, as well as past episodes are all available on This Week in Startups.


    0:41 – 7:25: Jason & Gagan discuss Gagan’s background at Udemy

    7:25 – 11:00: Gagan discusses his history in P2P work, starting at Lyft following his time at Udemy.

    14:50 – 16:21: Jason and Gagan chat about Sprig, their value proposition, and why this matters for the success they’re seeing

    16:21 – 19:01: Jason asks Gagan about where his idea for Sprig came from and how technology enabled this leap in food delivery technologies.

    19:01 – 20:36: Gagan explains the kinds of differences between the food delivery and ride markets.

    20:36 – 25:43: Gagan gives insight into the R&D department at Sprig which is taking advantage of changes in culinary technology & cooking/transportation times

    29:35 – 30:52: Jason asks Gagan: “Who are the whales?” and the chat more about target, high value customers.

    30:52 – 33:47: Jason and Gagan discuss the unit economics of Sprig meals, and their increased leverage compared with similar restaurant “competitors.”

    33:48 – 35:49: Gagan and Jason talk about the different growth metrics Sprig is measuring and the kind of success they’re seeing.

    37:03 – 39:22: Gagan gives insight into his personal philosophy of entrepreneurship, and how that ties into Sprig’s mission.

    39:23 – 42:50: Jason and Gagan discuss the quality of food, Sprig’s ability to iterate, and competitors in the space.

    42:50 – 53:24: Jason asks Gagan about Sprig competition: UberEATS, Munchery, and Blue Apron.

    53:25 – 56:51: Gagan and Jason discuss school, prison, hospital food, future developments for Sprig in the food industry — also nutrition and health

    56:51 – 63:32: Gagan gives a demo of the new food/nutrition classification system in Sprig

    63:32 – 64:16: Jason asks Gagan about robotics in Sprig’s future

    64:15 – 67:47: The conversation turns back to unit economics.

    67:47 – 73:52: Gagan and Jason discuss Sprig moving into new cities, food trucks, and other aspects of the business.

    75:55 – 79:54: Jason asks Gagan about growth hacking, and Gagan speaks about growth, marketing, and unit economics in his focus as a CEO

    81:09 – 83:47: Jason and Gagan talk about the demand for drivers between all of the companies looking for people to move things in these industries. They finish by discussing how delivery/driver based industries are improving the job market.

    – Valerie Stimac, TWiST Archivist

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